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[00:00:06] Interviewer: We can begin now. This is an interview from Mr. Joseph Purnell about the Germantown school in Berlin. Mr. Purnell, did you- were you a teacher or did you go to school, attend school there? [00:00:23][17.4]

[00:00:23] Joseph Purnell: I attended school at Germantown School. I started in 1925 in first grade and I graduated from the seventh grade in 1932. [00:00:41][17.2]

[00:00:44] Interviewer: Could you tell me something about how the school started in this community or something about how it operated? [00:00:52][7.7]

[00:00:53] Joseph Purnell: Well, the school, before the Germantown school was built in about 1922-23, there was another school here, a one-room school, where the students in this community went to school. It wasn't big enough, and it was only one room. And to have seven grades in one room was asking a lot from a teacher or from anybody. So they needed another school. And the people in the community tried to raise some money to get some property. And somehow they were able to get someone. From the Rosenwald Foundation to help them out. And so the Rosenwall Foundation helped them to get that school. And it was built in probably 1923. [00:02:01][67.6]

[00:02:06] Interviewer: Now, but the community had to raise money themselves also. [00:02:09][3.6]

[00:02:09] Joseph Purnell: The community had to raise some money to help out, and then the Rosenwald Foundation helped with the building. Obviously, the county and the state did very little at that time to help the people, the black people to get a school, and so they had to do what they could themselves in the community and get whatever outside help they could get, and the Rosenwald Foundation was the source of the help that they got. [00:02:46][36.6]

[00:02:48] Interviewer: But this was not a private school, this was a public school. [00:02:51][3.6]

[00:02:52] Joseph Purnell: It was a public school, it wasn't a private school. It was never a private school. It was just a public school for the black community. [00:03:03][10.5]

[00:03:06] Interviewer: Do you recall what some of the fundraising activities in the community were at the time? [00:03:11][5.1]

[00:03:12] Joseph Purnell: Well, back at that time, back in the early twenties, there was very little money made in the community. The greatest source of income was from the Harrison Company, which owned apple arches and peach orchards and other forms. Places in the community. They owned a lot of property, so they hired a lot of people to work in the summer. And then in the winter, they would do work for a while in their warehouses. And so they didn't make very much money. So the only way they could raise money was to have cake sales or sell dinners and things like that. That was the only way that could raise money. They didn't have the money. Source of income, and then in the summer to work at Ocean City, and that was only for three months. [00:04:19][66.6]

[00:04:23] Interviewer: So you attended the school, do you remember any of your teachers and what they were like? [00:04:27][4.2]

[00:04:28] Joseph Purnell: Oh yeah, I remember some of the teachers. I remember one teacher, we had one teacher who had graduated from Hampton Institute and she had belonged to a choir which sang, which went and sang all over the world. And she was our teacher and she was a music teacher. And she enter us in many singing contests, which we won. They used to have what we call a Declaration contest every year. And there would be different schools singing against each other and see which group would win. And so we used to win most of that when we had her as a teacher. Then I remember we had a man teacher from over in Somerset County. Mr. Cornish, I remember him, and we had another teacher, Mr. Hopkins, who was very strict, and he had a line of sticks in the corner, and when the boys acted up, he didn't hesitate to use them. [00:05:49][80.7]

[00:05:53] Interviewer: What subjects were taught in the school when you went there? [00:05:56][2.4]

[00:05:56] Joseph Purnell: But we had Math, English, Geography, and History that were our main subjects until we got out of the seventh grade. It was a two-room school, so in the first, second, and third grade, we were in one room. And the fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh was in the other room. So the teacher had to devote his time from one class to the next. He would teach the fourth grade first, then the fifth grade, then the sixth, then in the seventh. So if you were alert and you paid attention, you would get to learn. What they were doing in the sixth grade while you were in the fourth or fifth grade. So there were some advantages, but we didn't have a wide variety of subjects. And so our learning was limited to what we were exposed to. What was a typical school day like? Well we went to school at 9 o'clock in the morning and we had recess at 10.30, then lunch time was from 12 to 1 and we came back at 1 and then we were out at 3.30. [00:07:44][107.4]

[00:07:48] Interviewer: Did you have any unusual chores or something during the course of the day in the school? [00:07:53][5.6]

[00:07:55] Joseph Purnell: Well, sometimes, we had to go out and get, bring in the... The firewood or the coal for the stove. We had potbelly stoves in each classroom. At one time we used coal and the other time we use wood. So we used to bring it in and stack it up there near the stove [00:08:19][24.9]

[00:08:22] Interviewer: Did you have running water, or how'd you take it? [00:08:25][2.6]

[00:08:25] Joseph Purnell: No, we had no running water. We had no runny water. So you had to carry whatever was... [00:08:33][7.7]

[00:08:33] Interviewer: Where they needed it. [00:08:33][0.5]

[00:08:34] Joseph Purnell: Yeah, they'd bring in your water, whatever you needed. We had no bathrooms. The toilet was outside. It was one for the boys and one for girls. It was on the outside, outhouse, they used to call it. [00:08:47][12.9]

[00:08:51] Interviewer: What are some of your fondest memories of your life at that school? Some of the unusual things that happened that you remember. Something that stuck with you. A friend that you might have done something with. A teacher that you think had an effect. Something you want to say about your life in that school. [00:09:10][18.6]

[00:09:12] Joseph Purnell: Well, at the time, that was all I knew. There were a number of people that I grew up with, the most of them now are dead. It's only one left that I actually went to school with and stayed with throughout my elementary and high school days. He's still living, but all the rest of them are dead." [00:09:41][29.2]

[00:09:44] Interviewer: Did you ever get in any trouble with the teacher? Well, everybody has. [00:09:48][4.8]

[00:09:50] Joseph Purnell: Some little problems with the teacher. I guess I was the devilish like most of them. I remember one girl, I used to hit her with a dodge ball and try to hit a feet so it would knock her down. And I got caught doing it and the teacher gave me the strap. And then when I go... The word got to my father, I got another one. [00:10:20][29.6]

[00:10:21] Interviewer: Was that the last time you did that? [00:10:23][1.0]

[00:10:23] Joseph Purnell: Huh? Yeah, it was the last time I did that. Because once he knew about it, I knew that would be the last thing. [00:10:30][7.2]

[00:10:34] Interviewer: You went on to Hampton, did you say? [00:10:36][2.1]

[00:10:36] Joseph Purnell: Yeah, I went on to Hampton when I left Snow Hill. I went home, my friend and I, we went and had our first year was a work year. And you see, you work days and you went to school part-time at night. And I went the first year, then I went back the second year, and after that I had leave, because the money ran out. [00:11:06][29.7]

[00:11:10] Interviewer: Um. What else would you like to tell me about the school? About your experiences there? Why you think it's so important to this community? Why you want it to be remembered? [00:11:21][11.1]

[00:11:22] Joseph Purnell: Well, I think it's important to the community because the young people don't know what their heritage is. They don't what used to be, they know nothing about it. They only know what they have seen over the last few years. They don't realize from what we as a people have come through. So they need to know something about their history. And maybe to give them a better idea and give them more of an incentive to try to do better. They need to make something of themselves and try to something for themselves and their community. So that's why I feel like we need to let them know what has gone on before. [00:12:18][56.2]

[00:12:24] Interviewer: Barbara, do you have something you want to... Something I need to address. [00:12:28][3.9]

[00:12:29] Barbara: You know, I'm just curious about the teacher, the singing teacher. What was it singing teacher's name? [00:12:35][5.7]

[00:12:36] Joseph Purnell: You wanna know what? [00:12:36][0.4]

[00:12:37] Barbara: The singing teacher's name. [00:12:38][1.2]

[00:12:39] Interviewer: Some of the teachers. [00:12:40][0.6]

[00:12:40] Barbara: The singing teacher, the teacher. Oh, it's more. [00:12:43][2.8]

[00:12:44] Interviewer: She seemed like she had an influence on you. [00:12:45][1.7]

[00:12:46] Joseph Purnell: Mr. Martin was a singing teacher. [00:12:48][1.9]

[00:12:50] Interviewer: But she seemed to have had an influence, didn't you say she went to Hampton? Yeah, she went there. Went to Hampton, and she was the singing teacher? Yeah, and you went to Hampton, and it sounds like you've been involved in singing for a large part of your life, and enjoyed that. Was that because of her? Perhaps. [00:13:13][22.6]

[00:13:13] Joseph Purnell: Perhaps, I don't know, because my father always liked to sing. [00:13:21][7.1]

[00:13:25] Barbara: What was the name of that one-room school? I know it was over at Genesia's. Yeah. [00:13:29][4.5]

[00:13:31] Joseph Purnell: I don't know of any name they call it. I don't remember the name, see? Well, all I know is just that one room school down there. It was there for a number of years before they tore it down. [00:13:49][18.7]

[00:13:55] Interviewer: Then prior to the Rosenwald School, there was a school, but it was a one-room school. [00:13:59][4.7]

[00:14:00] Joseph Purnell: Buh-moo. [00:14:00][0.0]

[00:14:00] Interviewer: It was the one room tour, yeah. It was one room. [00:14:03][3.0]

[00:14:11] Barbara: When the teachers were here, what did they do, board? [00:14:15][4.6]

[00:14:17] Joseph Purnell: Yeah, most of them stayed with the Crippins. [00:14:20][3.1]

[00:14:21] Barbara: Oh, okay [00:14:21][0.3]

[00:14:22] Joseph Purnell: Most of them, most of them stay with the equipment. Now how were they paid? How were the teachers paid? How were they paid? Not much. They were paid by the state or the county. They were paid, but I'm sure they weren't well paid. [00:14:40][18.6]

[00:14:43] Interviewer: Thank you. [00:14:43][0.3]

[00:14:45] Joseph Purnell: Josephine would be able to tell you more about the pay. Maybe she'll probably know about that, or I wouldn't know about the Pay. [00:14:53][8.1]

[00:15:00] Interviewer: Did you feel you got a good education? [00:15:02][1.5]

[00:15:05] Joseph Purnell: No. Not really. [00:15:06][1.0]

[00:15:06] Interviewer: Not really? [00:15:06][0.1]

[00:15:07] Joseph Purnell: Not really, because when I went to college, that's when I found out what I had missed. I had miss so much by the time when I was in college. When I went out for the football team, I didn't know the first thing about football. We'd never had a football team. What did I know about football? And so I had to learn from scratch, and other kids from other parts of the country who had played football in high school, so they were well ahead when they got there, they were ready to keep it on, and I had learned from scratch. [00:15:54][46.6]

[00:15:57] Interviewer: Did you get much homework and things like that? [00:15:59][2.9]

[00:16:01] Joseph Purnell: We always had homework. We always were given homework. And when we came home, I had to do it, too. Because my mother and father made sure that we did our homework. They would check our homework just like a teacher did. [00:16:21][19.8]

[00:16:23] Barbara: What areas did the children come from when they went to school? [00:16:26][3.3] [00:16:27] Joseph Purnell: To this school that came from all of Germantown, from Harrison Road down to Hays Landing Road down through there, and then also a lot of it came from, later on, came from Sinopatse too. So everywhere in this, in the Berlin area, except for our street. [00:17:00][33.0]

[00:17:03] Barbara: Was it always a school at Flower Street? [00:17:05][2.2]

[00:17:06] Joseph Purnell: As far as I know, as far as know there was always a school in Flaherty, Flaerty had a four-room school, they had four rooms, they have the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth (grades). And when we got to know him, they had a four-room school. [00:17:38][31.3]

[00:17:40] Interviewer: Well, how you live you lived up here in Germantown? How did you get to school in? [00:17:45][5.7]

[00:17:45] Joseph Purnell: At first, we had a family car, and that's how we got there. At first, they didn't give us anything. They wouldn't help us out on our gas or anything, but I think that last year, the state gave like $15 to each student that went to school. They went to the school in the car, and they gave $15. To each student, and that was given to the person who owned the car and paid for the gas and the service of the car. [00:18:33][48.0]

[00:18:46] Barbara: And even when you were going to Flower Street, there was no school busses for us. [00:18:51][4.8]

[00:18:52] Joseph Purnell: We went to a flight here, we what? [00:18:54][1.5]

[00:18:56] Barbara: Did you get paid for that? [00:18:57][1.1]

[00:18:57] Joseph Purnell: No, we didn't get paid for it. We just went down here by Tyree Church, down through the woods, and right out where Gull Creek is, over to Flark Street. I can remember there were days when it would be so cold. I remember one morning it was snowing, and you could walk back from here to that. That cabinet over there. You'd have to stop and turn around and face the sun. It was so cold. You had to walk forward and then you'd turn around in back three or four steps and turn around to walk some more. By the time you got to school, your ears would feel like they're ready to fall off. [00:19:47][49.4]

[00:19:56] Interviewer: Thank you. Mr. Purnell, could you explain how your school year ended and why? [00:20:14][17.3]

[00:20:15] Joseph Purnell: Our school year used to end in the middle of May, and Friday would be like, generally the 14th or 15th or 16th of May. And that would be our last day of school. And by Monday morning, the farmers from nearby who had strawberry fields would be coming to pick up the kids. And their families, they would go pick strawberries, and that would last for about a couple of months, a couple weeks, two or three weeks. And then it would be time to go to the nursery and start working for the Hansen brothers. At that time they had a lot of fruit trees and saplings. They were butting the apple. And the peach branches to make different kinds of peaches to Alberta or yellow cling peaches or different apples like Macintosh, Golden Delicious or Red Delicious or whatever, whatever kind of apple or peach seedlings they wanted to bud into. This they did for probably the rest of the summer until the peaches and apples got ripe. And when it was time to pick them, then you'd be picking them. And then a school would start about the middle of September. But a lot of students didn't come to school until maybe around October because they be some of them. Were in farm families and their family were working on farms, they would have to stay with them until after they had harvested some of their winter crops, like the potatoes and the corn, and so they wouldn't get to school until after that was taken care of. So that's why we went to school a little bit later in the fall and why we got up earlier in the summer. That we would be available as laborers for their fields. [00:22:50][155.3]

[00:22:53] Interviewer: Thank you. Now, was the school year for the white kids similar, or did they go long? What was that? [00:23:03][9.5]

[00:23:04] Joseph Purnell: They always went to school earlier and stayed later. Q. Do you think they were full nine months like they were in the states? A. Yeah, they went to like the full nine months. I'm very close to it like they are now. [00:23:24][19.6]

[00:23:28] Interviewer: I didn't want to miss that. [00:23:29][0.6]

[00:23:29] Barbara: One other thing, the books. School books. [00:23:33][3.8]

[00:23:34] Joseph Purnell: Of the school books, we got the second hand books. When we got our books, we didn't get new books. We never got new books, when we got our books the books were books were already been used. Some of them had all sort of stuff written in them and a lot of them were torn pages out. We didn't new books we didn't know what a new book looked like. I have a bunch of old books here and there, different people have given them to me, so I have them on the side so when we do open up our little museum in the school, I'll bring them and put them in there. [00:24:27][53.4]

[00:24:32] Interviewer: You said in the back room, right? [00:24:34][1.5]

[00:24:34] Joseph Purnell: Yeah. [00:24:34][0.0]

[00:24:37] Barbara: Thank you. [00:24:37][0.0] [1301.4]