Media

Transcript

[00:00:05] Fiona Green: Today is July 13th, 2005. We're here with Mrs.Hortense Stanley. She's talking about her days at Wicomico Elementary School. Fiona Green and Cindy Gilbert are conducting this interview. [00:00:22][17.0]

[00:00:25] Cindy Gilbert: Ms. Stanley, at what age did you begin school? [00:00:27][2.2]

[00:00:27] Hortense Stanley: 9. [00:00:27][0.0]

[00:00:30] Cindy Gilbert: And how far was the school from your home? [00:00:32][1.6]

[00:00:34] Hortense Stanley: Directly about a mile. [00:00:35][1.0]

[00:00:36] Cindy Gilbert: And how did you get there? [00:00:38][1.6]

[00:00:41] Hortense Stanley: Walking. [00:00:41][0.0]

[00:00:41] Cindy Gilbert: And how many brothers and sisters did you have? [00:00:43][2.0]

[00:00:44] Hortense Stanley: I had two sisters and four brothers. [00:00:45][1.6]

[00:00:47] Cindy Gilbert: Did you all walk together to school? [00:00:48][1.1]

[00:00:49] Hortense Stanley: Yes. [00:00:49][0.0]

[00:00:51] Cindy Gilbert: And where do you fall among the brothers and sisters? Oldest, youngest, middle? [00:00:55][4.0]

[00:00:55] Hortense Stanley: I'm the oldest. [00:00:56][0.8]

[00:00:57] Cindy Gilbert: And please describe for me at typical day at school. [00:01:00][2.4]

[00:01:02] Hortense Stanley: Oh. We had lessons in the early, when we first went to school, then we had recess, and we played outside, recess at, I'll say, around 10, and then we go back, and, then, we had lunch, around 12, and then we went back at 1 and we had lessons until about 2. Then we'd have recess, then at 3:30 we was going home. [00:01:33][31.7]

[00:01:39] Cindy Gilbert: And can you describe to me what your classroom looks like? [00:01:42][2.9]

[00:01:43] Hortense Stanley: Oh, the classroom was nice and big. It was a good size and the bulletin board were all always kind of nice and the other boards were nice too. [00:01:55][11.8]

[00:01:57] Cindy Gilbert: Classroom 6?(phone rings) And your classroom, how is it? Is it cold in the winter? It's hot in the summer. [00:02:07][10.0]

[00:02:09] Hortense Stanley: Well, it was hot in the summer, but in the winter we kept, we had a fire in the old kind of stove. And it was comfortable. It was warm. [00:02:19][10.3]

[00:02:20] Cindy Gilbert: Who maintained that fire? [00:02:21][1.0]

[00:02:22] Hortense Stanley: The boys. The boys and the principal. We always had a principal. He was always a man. [00:02:28][6.5]

[00:02:31] Cindy Gilbert: That was never the girl's responsibility? [00:02:32][1.3]

[00:02:32] Hortense Stanley: No (laughs) [00:02:32][0.0]

[00:02:34] Cindy Gilbert: And how are the students grouped in your school? [00:02:36][2.3]

[00:02:38] Hortense Stanley: Oh, we had first and second grade teacher groups and third and fourth and fifth. Then sixth and seventh. [00:02:47][8.7]

[00:02:50] Cindy Gilbert: And what subjects were you taught in school? [00:02:53][2.8]

[00:02:56] Hortense Stanley: Oh, we were taught Reading, Arithmetic, English, and History, and Geography. I think that was and maybe about the Elements. [00:03:05][9.3]

[00:03:07] Cindy Gilbert: A little bit of everything. Did you mention science? Any science that your elementary school taught? [00:03:12][5.0]

[00:03:12] Hortense Stanley: Not at that time, we didn't have science at that age. [00:03:17][4.4]

[00:03:18] Cindy Gilbert: What was your favorite subject before? [00:03:20][1.3]

[00:03:21] Hortense Stanley: Oh, my favorite subject was, did I say reading? Reading. Reading and Arithmetic. [00:03:27][5.9]

[00:03:31] Cindy Gilbert: And reading, do you have a favorite book? [00:03:33][1.9]

[00:03:36] Hortense Stanley: No, not really. [00:03:36][0.5]

[00:03:39] Fiona Green: What was your least favorite subject? [00:03:40][1.1]

[00:03:40] Hortense Stanley: History (everyone laughs) [00:03:40][0.0]

[00:03:48] Fiona Green: Exactly what we're here for. [00:03:49][1.5]

[00:03:51] Cindy Gilbert: Were all of your teachers in school, were they all African American teachers? [00:03:54][2.5]

[00:03:55] Hortense Stanley: Yes, they were all African-American teachers. [00:03:57][2.4]

[00:03:58] Cindy Gilbert: Who was your favorite teacher in elementary school? [00:04:00][1.6]

[00:04:02] Hortense Stanley: Well, in my first grade, in early, my first-grade teacher, and later on my principal, you know, maybe in seventh grade or sixth and seventh grade, the principal. [00:04:20][17.7]

[00:04:22] Cindy Gilbert: Why did you choose those as your favorites? [00:04:24][1.7]

[00:04:26] Hortense Stanley: Well, they seemed like they were helpful. They didn't mind helping you, you know. You could question, ask questions, and get a pleasant answer. [00:04:37][11.0]

[00:04:40] Fiona Green: So the principal ran the school but also taught subjects? [00:04:43][3.1]

[00:04:44] Hortense Stanley: Yes. [00:04:44][0.0]

[00:04:47] Cindy Gilbert: What was some of your classroom rules? [00:04:48][1.3]

[00:04:52] Hortense Stanley: Yeah I really don't remember, but I would say between 15 and 20. [00:05:02][10.8]

[00:05:05] Cindy Gilbert: Oh no, no, rules like you have to follow. [00:05:07][2.0]

[00:05:08] Hortense Stanley: Oh, I thought you said rolls. Oh, Rolls. Oh. Oh Rules!, oh. Oh you had to keep quiet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you had keep quiet, not, you know, while you're in the classroom. And even if you're studying, you don't want classes. Studying while the other class is getting taught. But you're still supposed to keep quiet. [00:05:28][20.9]

[00:05:30] Cindy Gilbert: And what would happen if you didn't keep quiet? What would the punishment be? [00:05:33][2.6]

[00:05:35] Hortense Stanley: Um, they'd get punished. And then probably had to go in the coat room. [00:05:41][5.3]

[00:05:41] Cindy Gilbert: In the coat room? That was the punishment? [00:05:44][2.4]

[00:05:44] Hortense Stanley: Yeah, you know, that was the only place you could get out of the classroom. That's about it. [00:05:49][5.3]

[00:05:52] Cindy Gilbert: Were any of the students hit with rulers or anything? [00:05:55][2.6]

[00:05:55] Hortense Stanley: Yeah but sometimes they would smack your hand with a ruler. [00:05:57][2.2]

[00:05:59] Fiona Green: What would you have done that would cause them to smack your hand? [00:06:04][5.2]

[00:06:11] Hortense Stanley: Maybe... Do something to another student, something similar to that. [00:06:14][3.7]

[00:06:16] Do you remember any students in particular who were troublemakers in class, but always seemed to be in that coat room? [00:06:22][5.4]

[00:06:28] Hortense Stanley: No, I really don't. Might been some boys. Boys, at that time boys. They're always extra active, you know. [00:06:36][8.2]

[00:06:39] Cindy Gilbert: Speaking of boys, how were boys and girls treated differently? [00:06:42][3.3]

[00:06:46] Hortense Stanley: Well, I don't think they were treated differently, I really don't. [00:06:48][2.5]

[00:06:52] Cindy Gilbert: Well, for example, you said when, with the stove, to say that was their job. Was there certain jobs that only the girls did, not the boys? But even just things like that, jobs that were telling you. [00:07:02][10.3]

[00:07:03] Hortense Stanley: We should probably get this paper up out of the floor and tidy up whatever they're doing. [00:07:09][6.3]

[00:07:12] Cindy Gilbert: And, what did you usually wear to school? Did you have a uniform or anything? [00:07:15][3.1]

[00:07:16] Hortense Stanley: No, we just wore out our same clothes. We didn't have that much either. [00:07:20][4.7]

[00:07:22] Cindy Gilbert: What were your plain clothes at that time? [00:07:23][1.6]

[00:07:25] Hortense Stanley: Probably a skirt, a blouse, or a dress. We never wore pants. Not in those years. Not in elementary. No, we never wore pant in high school either. [00:07:37][11.8]

[00:07:39] Cindy Gilbert: And, um, at that time, were there any fads, anything that was in style in particular that you remember of the being in style? Clothing, games? [00:07:48][9.6]

[00:07:58] Hortense Stanley: No, not that I remember. [00:07:59][0.1]

[00:07:59] In school, elementary school or high school, were there activities or sports that you were interested in? [00:08:03][4.7]

[00:08:06] Hortense Stanley: Well, um, like I said, in elementary school we were taught to play book ball, tag, book ball. And that principal was really very active. He played with us a lot. In high school, I, uh, high school. Oh yeah, in high school we played basketball and football. [00:08:30][24.0]

[00:08:35] Cindy Gilbert: Do the girls play football too? [00:08:36][1.4]

[00:08:38] Hortense Stanley: No, the girls don't play football. They play basketball. [00:08:41][2.9]

[00:08:44] Cindy Gilbert: And after school, what sort of things do you enjoy to do after school? [00:08:47][3.1]

[00:08:49] Hortense Stanley: Uh, just go play with my neighbors, we're as a, you know, as a child, but when I went to high school, I didn't have any, you know, kids who liked to be there, and that's been a big one for a while. [00:09:03][13.3]

[00:09:04] Cindy Gilbert: What sort of things did you do? Did you have a hangout? [00:09:06][2.1]

[00:09:09] Hortense Stanley: No, just visiting neighbors. Now, they didn't hang out with me much, but...
[00:09:15][6.5]

[00:09:16] Cindy Gilbert: How close were your neighbors? [00:09:17][0.8]

[00:09:21] Hortense Stanley: Bit like you see around here now, you know, that... I was just a little far from... [00:09:26][5.7]

[00:09:29] Cindy Gilbert: Do you remember having a lot of homework at school? [00:09:31][2.0]

[00:09:34] Hortense Stanley: Yes, we really have a lot of homework. [00:09:36][1.6]

[00:09:38] Cindy Gilbert: How long do you need to spend doing homework? [00:09:40][1.8]

[00:09:44] Hortense Stanley: I would say. I would say by the, maybe by a couple hours in the evening. [00:09:50][5.8]

[00:09:55] Cindy Gilbert: What did you do after you completed high school? [00:09:57][2.4]

[00:09:59] Hortense Stanley: Oh, after I completed high school, I went to New York to live, and I worked- domestic work. [00:10:09][10.0]

[00:10:11] Cindy Gilbert: New York City or the city? [00:10:13][1.5]

[00:10:15] Hortense Stanley: Jamaica, New York. There's the type of work I do, but didn't have to work for us. Oh, I guess about, about nine years and then I came back here. [00:10:28][13.2]

[00:10:30] Cindy Gilbert: What brought you all the way to New York? [00:10:31][1.0]

[00:10:33] Hortense Stanley: Pardon? [00:10:33][0.0]

[00:10:34] Cindy Gilbert: What brought you all the way to New York? [00:10:34][0.8]

[00:10:35] Hortense Stanley: Brought me there? [00:10:35][0.0]

[00:10:36] Fiona Green: Yeah. [00:10:36][0.0]

[00:10:36] Hortense Stanley: Well, I had a girlfriend and she had relatives there and we just went there and there to get a job. The jobs weren't too easy there anyway. I mean, it wasn't too eas- you know, you just weren't too many jobs in this area. [00:10:51][14.4]

[00:10:53] Cindy Gilbert: At the time that you had gone to school, would you say that education was valued as something that was important? [00:10:59][5.9]

[00:11:03] Hortense Stanley: I think that still holds true today. That's important. Yes, I think it's important, but I don't think a lot of them don't take the advantage of it. [00:11:13][9.7]

[00:11:15] Cindy Gilbert: At the time that you went to school, were you aware of racial inequalities that you went to a school that was segregated? Were you aware that? [00:11:22][6.3]

[00:11:23] Hortense Stanley: Oh yeah. Yeah, we were all black. This was a segregated area, so we had our own pool, our own kitchen. [00:11:34][11.7]

[00:11:40] Cindy Gilbert: How did you feel about going to the segregated school? [00:11:42][2.1]

[00:11:44] Hortense Stanley: Well, I grew up that way, so it was okay. I think with me, it was fine. I rather that my son went to integrated school when it first started. That was good. It wasn't too good for the kids. [00:12:11][26.6]

[00:12:12] Cindy Gilbert: If you could tell us more about that experience, we would really be interested in hearing about your son and any experiences they had with them. [00:12:19][7.2]

[00:12:20] Hortense Stanley: Well, he would have a hard time with his teacher or principal, you know, and not only him, but I'm the same thing because I knew him more than him. But his first year in high school was integrated. It wasn't the best. [00:12:39][19.1]

[00:12:40] Cindy Gilbert: I bet it was difficult. [00:12:40][0.6]

[00:12:42] I was ready to go to school just like I did. [00:12:47][5.6]

[00:12:48] Really? [00:12:48][0.0]

[00:12:49] Yeah. Is there a lot of fights? Yeah, there's a lot. What school did he go to? More Delahunt. [00:12:58][9.7]

[00:13:03] Hortense Stanley: Bye! [00:13:03][0.0]

[00:13:04] Cindy Gilbert: How do you make your own? [00:13:05][0.5]

[00:13:05] Hortense Stanley: Oh, I grew up with my husband. My husband was, he went to the same school I did and then he quit school and he went into service. And he stayed in service. He wasn't my husband, I mean, you know, he wasn't even my boyfriend. I think he was in service like four years, almost four years and a half, but he was everywhere I watched too. [00:13:29][24.2]

[00:13:39] Cindy Gilbert: What were your, you grew up, probably went to high school, maybe a little later, middle school area, during the depression, or were you younger, maybe elementary school? It was depression when I was in elementary school. Do you remember, what do you recall about the depression? [00:13:59][19.3]

[00:14:01] Hortense Stanley: Um It wasn't too bad in my home, but I think some families, you know, they needed help. [00:14:09][8.4]

[00:14:13] Fiona Green: Would that be because your father was a farmer? [00:14:16][2.7]

[00:14:16] Hortense Stanley: Farmer, yes. Sort of grew what we had to eat at that time, close enough to lose weight. [00:14:25][8.8]

[00:14:25] Fiona Green: What was your job in terms of the farm? [00:14:30][5.2]

[00:14:31] Hortense Stanley: Oh, we do everything as we hope. Plants, get the grass out, the weeds out, and then harvest it. [00:14:40][9.1]

[00:14:44] Fiona Green: So on any given day, like when you got home from school you said you would stay with your friends, and you had two hours to come home. Was there any time in there that you needed to help around the house? [00:14:55][10.9]

[00:14:56] Hortense Stanley: Oh, yeah. Well, wouldn't have some to help around the house, but my mother was there, you know, around the houses. And then later on when he got warm and warm in time, then we could help my father some, especially in the late spring. And it's supposed to be the boys, it's the boys this morning. [00:15:20][24.5]

[00:15:24] Cindy Gilbert: Have your parents also lived in this area for their whole lives or yes? [00:15:29][4.7]

[00:15:30] Hortense Stanley: They grew up here and they carried here, and they grew up there, so... [00:15:35][5.2]

[00:15:39] Cindy Gilbert: Do you remember the Rosenwald school days where you would clean up and improve the grounds? That was something we read about in our research. It may not have been called that because you said it was like Hanukkah elementary school, but in our research it said that you had Rosenwald School days and where you clean up to improve the school grounds. This is it. [00:16:01][21.6]

[00:16:03] Hortense Stanley: So, well, the boys would do it more so than the girls. What would the girls' responsibilities be? They would help if they wanted to, but it was more than the boys' responsibility. [00:16:14][11.4]

[00:16:16] Fiona Green: So there was no actual, we had the impression that there was some sort of a celebration where there would be a community outreach in terms of cleaning up or improving the ground and then there would songs and speeches and do you remember anything like that? [00:16:36][19.8]

[00:16:37] Hortense Stanley: No, but I know parents would help clean up the schoolyard too. [00:16:45][7.6]

[00:16:48] Fiona Green: Did they just do that as they wanted or was there like once a month everybody would need it? No, I think they did it as they want it or as it needed. [00:16:55][7.6]

[00:16:57] Cindy Gilbert: It sounds like people in the town put a lot of pride in the school, is that correct? [00:17:01][3.5]

[00:17:02] Hortense Stanley: Yeah, I think we did. I think it was... Take me straight. Oh, you didn't come by then. No, I know you didn't. Because you came straight here. But you still look fine. [00:17:15][13.1]

[00:17:15] Hortense Stanley: Yeah, yeah. [00:17:15][0.4]

[00:17:24] Cindy Gilbert: Did your parents, well let me ask you this question, what did they charge you to go to school with? Was it free? Did your parent take contributions? Or how was that? How did that happen? [00:17:35][10.4]

[00:17:36] Hortense Stanley: We didn't captivate his school, only the first year I went to high school, I think, I'm not positive that it was blank. We went on a school bus, and it was 25 cents a week, I THINK, I'M NOT POSITIVE. You know, for students. [00:17:52][16.4]

[00:17:54] Cindy Gilbert: You have to bring your own lunch, your lunch money, or bring your nuts. [00:17:58][3.7]

[00:17:59] Hortense Stanley: To both schools I went to, but they had a cafeteria in high school. You could have pulled it back You could buy a new one [00:18:09][10.1]

[00:18:13] Cindy Gilbert: When you were growing up, did you have a role model? Somebody you looked up to? [00:18:15][2.9]

[00:18:20] Hortense Stanley: Not really. I had a special girlfriend. What do you mean? Like somebody older than me? [00:18:32][11.9]

[00:18:33] Cindy Gilbert: This doesn't necessarily have to be somebody other than you. [00:18:36][2.6]

[00:18:37] Hortense Stanley: Oh, well, my girlfriend. She's not here now. She passed away a long time ago, but that was the only girlfriend I ever had. You know, really girlfriend. When did you meet your friend of yours? Oh, we grew right up in the 60's. I guess I met her when she was six years old, or maybe even before. We probably went to church before then. [00:19:01][23.9]

[00:19:05] Cindy Gilbert: Um, is this the girl from your school from New York West? Right. You guys are obviously very close friends. What kind of role does a church play? Oh, it's just, I didn't search it twice. [00:19:21][16.4]

[00:19:22] Hortense Stanley: I would thank you. Do those people in the community go to that one church? That one church, yes. We all grew up in that one church. We had four children, we had a son in school, we had youth fellowships and young adult organization. After youth fellowship, we got a little older and we had our young adult organization. [00:19:46][24.3]

[00:19:48] Fiona Green: Would you say that you still have basically the same congregation? The same people? In terms of family? Yes. [00:20:00][12.8]

[00:20:03] Cindy Gilbert: That's very interesting. And unless Cindy has any more questions, this is actually my last question. I was just going to ask you since you've worked here for so long, how has the community changed? [00:20:12][9.8]

[00:20:15] Hortense Stanley: Thank you. [00:20:15][0.4]

[00:20:18] Hortense Stanley: It seems like maybe in the last year or two years it has changed. Well, you know, I'm sure you've heard about how the youth changed from years back. But other than that, it's somewhat the same. They have a little more different ideas than what we did, which makes sense. You [00:20:43][25.1]

[00:20:44] Fiona Green: I was going to ask, how do you see the youth today being different than when you were growing up, or even your own children? They have some... [00:20:54][9.5]

[00:20:54] Hortense Stanley: My idea is that I don't go somewhere, but you have to. [00:21:00][5.4]

[00:21:00] Fiona Green: Like what? We won't tell anyone. Do you think they still have the same sort of social graces, the same sort of respect? [00:21:18][17.5]

[00:21:20] Hortense Stanley: They definitely don't have the respect. Respect of property, respect of people, elders? As a whole, but you know, some do. I don't know. In fact, I feel sorry for them and everything. Yeah, because I personally think a big part of it is the parent's thought because they don't teach them and they don't insist that they do. So, that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to ask you to tell us what some of you think. [00:22:01][41.0]

[00:22:04] Fiona Green: You can probably see the difference as well in the family structure. Well, is there anything, any memory that you would like to share with us? [00:22:15][11.4]

[00:22:18] Hortense Stanley: I don't know. [00:22:19][0.6]

[00:22:21] Fiona Green: It was a special occasion as a child that you remember? Something that you did to children at the church or at school? [00:22:34][12.6]

[00:22:37] Hortense Stanley: Once we had an activity we called field day, like in the spring, and then we would associate with other schools. We would play games against one another with the other schools What did some of the other schools do? Other schools in the county. There's a lot of little towns that had schools just like we do at their own schools. For instance, Mardela. Mardela Springs. Wynter Cove. Even Salisbury. They did elementary schools just as we did. And that's what we did do with it. And then too, we did have a field day, and that was counting wise. That would be a strong start. But the old school, we come together in that game. We played against one another. [00:23:35][58.6]

[00:23:38] Fiona Green: Would you also be competing with schools that were all white students? [00:23:45][6.7]

[00:23:47] Hortense Stanley: Yes, I'm looking forward to it. [00:23:49][2.0]

[00:23:55] Fiona Green: Well, we certainly thank you for your memories here and answering all our questions. [00:24:02][6.9]

[00:24:08] Hortense Stanley: Thank you. [00:24:08][0.2]

[00:24:21] Cindy Gilbert: Now, did he live around here? [00:24:23][1.2]

[00:24:24] Hortense Stanley: No. Right now, he's been... He just got on the army and he's in Kentucky or Tennessee. That's where he is right now. He's still living. [00:24:32][8.2]

[00:24:34] Fiona Green: Do your other daughter, does she live around here? [00:24:38][3.5]

[00:24:39] Hortense Stanley: No, that's not good for the edge,(inaudible) this is heavy traffic, she, she missed it, uh, here watch. [00:24:44][5.3]

[00:24:47] Cindy Gilbert: Do you see them often? From the grandchildren we have. [00:24:53][5.9]

[00:25:03] Hortense Stanley: Bye! Did she drive? Yes. Yeah, I think so. I don't have the data. It was a few minutes ago. I'll keep driving(inaudbile). [00:25:18][15.2]

[00:25:24] Fiona Green: Thank you again! [00:25:24][0.0] [1140.9]