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[00:00:02] Mary Onley: But that's the way I cut the tops of it. I shape them. That's not but newspaper that have been painted, varnished. [00:00:09][7.2]

[00:00:10] Interviewer: How many sheets of newspaper are there? [00:00:12][1.6]

[00:00:12] Mary Onley: Just one, one sheet of newspaper. [00:00:13][1.7]

[00:00:14] Interviewer: There's the effect once it's got all the paint on there. [00:00:15][1.8]

[00:00:16] Mary Onley: Once you put the prime on it, and then you paint it and that makes it thicker. [00:00:24][7.9]

[00:00:26] Interviewer: It's still fairly pliable too. This is the first time I've ever seen clothing made of paper-machined hats and vests. Do you want to take that? [00:00:37][11.4]

[00:00:38] Mary Onley: Yeah, you could do that too. [00:00:39][1.0]

[00:00:43] Mary Onley: I don't know why I say it, he might have said it. [00:00:44][1.7]

[00:00:48] Mary Onley: Okay. All right. I said, well, I have to make a hat for my first showing to go to Newport News. And I said one of that days, I thought it was a leather hat. And everybody said, the hat, the earring, the pin, and the belt. And the artist that I was doing the show with, when the brown, he said, they say, guess what, the head is made from paper, too. He said, no, let's pass it later, we'll be left the hat on. And he said, don't tell me that hat got out of paper. I pull it off, and I left it so you see the newspaper, I'll pull the hat off, down with it. I said, huh? And so everybody said, we need this hat. We need a hat like that. And I mean, I'm so glad I can pass it. [00:01:35][46.9]

[00:01:35] Interviewer: Yeah, I figured, I figure you do have them. What are most popular, the baseball type hats with the brim or? [00:01:40][5.0]

[00:01:41] Mary Onley: No, because what I do with them, I just make them to show it, even my husband and I will. And so I haven't made any sale so far. Not saying I can't, but I haven't made any sales. [00:01:56][14.3]

[00:01:56] Interviewer: But the big ones, the big pretty ones, the fancy ones. [00:01:58][2.3]

[00:01:58] Mary Onley: The big pretty ones that we have at church, a lot of people wear them at church everywhere. Really? I mean, a beautician, most of my hats is in beautician and people come in to get their hats fixed, so they buy a hat, they wear it with it. [00:02:09][11.2]

[00:02:10] Mary Onley: Yeah. [00:02:10][0.0]

[00:02:11] Mary Onley: And so, you know, and so like during the summer I didn't make any hats and I stocked that little hat for the winter. And plus I'm planning on making a lion. [00:02:22][11.5]

[00:02:23] Interviewer: Laps, what a great idea. [00:02:24][0.8]

[00:02:25] Mary Onley: Okay, I don't have one here, but I have many lamps and all. [00:02:30][4.9]

[00:02:31] Interviewer: The clocks were wonderful. Weren't you? [00:02:33][2.3]

[00:02:34] Mary Onley: Yes, yes, do it, and then you do something else, you make it look better, so you can try to put a clock in this, you know. And they all are. [00:02:42][7.8]

[00:02:42] Interviewer: They'll work, I guess. [00:02:43][0.7]

[00:02:43] Mary Onley: Power work! [00:02:44][0.4]

[00:02:44] Interviewer: Hey! [00:02:44][0.0]

[00:02:45] Mary Onley: And you're my betters. [00:02:45][0.6]

[00:02:46] Interviewer: You just get the clock works at like, where do you get that little... [00:02:49][3.5]

[00:02:52] Mary Onley: Then I put the face and everything in it myself, you know, it comes with everything else. You know, I come with it, so you don't have to put the battery in here and there. I don't do no work at all, I do nothing like that. All I do is put the faces in it, put the hands in and stuff. So it's all through a battery operator? Battery operator. And I do all the designing and so on. [00:03:15][22.9]

[00:03:16] Interviewer: I'm going to put this away. Let me start off. I'm interviewing Mary only at her home, and where are we? We're not really in painter anymore. [00:03:40][24.1]

[00:03:40] Mary Onley: No, we're closest to Creightveil. Creight-veil... [00:03:43][2.8]

[00:03:44] Interviewer: Okay, um, and um, talking about her paper mache art. It's a, probably, it's, technically it's probably not really paper mache because you might use the plaster. Is paper mache, no, I'm getting plaster pairs confused. [00:04:01][16.8]

[00:04:01] Mary Onley: No, this is not paper machine. It's not paper machines? It's similar, but it's no plastic, it's nothing but paper, it just recycling newspaper. [00:04:11][9.3]

[00:04:13] Interviewer: And you told me when we had the tape recorder off that you use Elmer's glue as the base for your stiffener and your constructions. There was one piece that was made of your furniture that had aluminum cans for structural support, I guess. But everything else is all paper. [00:04:38][25.0]

[00:04:38] Mary Onley: Call a paper. [00:04:39][0.5]

[00:04:41] Interviewer: When did you start making this kind of stuff? [00:04:44][2.4]

[00:04:44] Mary Onley: Um, nineteen and ninety-six, and note that I'm on the fifth of nineteen-ninety-six. [00:04:52][7.6]

[00:04:54] Interviewer: How come you remember that precisely? [00:04:56][2.1]

[00:04:57] Mary Onley: Oh, okay. Because that day I met a mother artist and I had it right for a career mark at that point. [00:05:06][8.5]

[00:05:08] Interviewer: You're headed for it. [00:05:09][0.7]

[00:05:09] Mary Onley: For a trademark? For a trademark. And so on. And that day, we worked for the trademark. And that's why I went for the other day. What does that mean, the trademark? A trademark is a tradition of work that is just made, a new product that came out and used to make all the other products. [00:05:29][20.3]

[00:05:30] Interviewer: Okay, so you have some sort of a copywriter drama? [00:05:33][3.4]

[00:05:33] Mary Onley: Right, on the right of it. [00:05:35][1.5]

[00:05:36] Interviewer: I noticed you're very organized, you've got the stickers, I don't have them on these yet, but the little silver stickers with you, you've even got business cards, I've pocketed a couple of those. Have you done any kind of artwork before you started your paper work? I mean, were you a painter? [00:05:57][21.3]

[00:05:58] Mary Onley: No. No, don't lie. Mm-hmm. I could. Well, I would just sew, but I'd just sew for the family. I didn't like. First I started designing my own clothes and wearing them, and after that I started designing curtains just for the family so that people could see. I left them there, I started designing check covers. Going to people's houses and just It's your call, it's just fine. Right there. I left from there, I started with newspaper. First I started out with an Indian dollar. It's not here, it's next door to my mother's. And the Indian dollar would consist of clothes hanger. And I was using just my hands, and the clothes hangers got too old, and I said, well, you can't wear it like this. It's too old and I'm not going to buy any more. I said so we're going to do something with this paper. And I said well Lord, if you will, can help me, please help me. Because this paper, I've got to do something with these paper other than buy it, read it, and throw it away. And I say if I only can, I spare the night by rolling up just a piece of paper. Making my balance with it. And with the legs. And I said I had two legs of paper going in which direction I could have. They said well roll up another piece. I rolled up a piece for the body. Then they said okay, then why not stick the two pieces into the body that's legs. Then I could do the legs? They said yeah, if you can do that with the legs, do the arms the same way. I did the arms same way, see. A head is just a bag of paper anyway. So look at your head. And that's where I started on you. Then I said, but now I got all of this. How does it get dressed? Paper is paper, paper tear. But try. Put your glue on it first. Glue it down. The glue, once you put your glue on the paper, it's going to make it thoughtful, and the paper is less hard, easier, less hard I meant to tear. It's easier to tear without anything on it. But once you put the glue on it, don't put it enough to soak it. Then I put the glues on it and then that's how I shape my doll. Sometimes I cover up the legs with the clothes. Sometimes I leave the legs out. And then filling the shoes, much easier because you just balls up a piece of paper. And decide which way you want the shoe to look. I said, good. Put the eye brow. I put the eyelashes. I just draw the eye brows and the lips. I just ball up paper and put it for the lips, make the ears, and I do the hair myself. [00:09:00][181.9]

[00:09:01] Interviewer: Mm-hmm. [00:09:01][0.0]

[00:09:02] Mary Onley: Hasta luego! [00:09:02][0.4]

[00:09:03] Interviewer: I see on your table here, we've got glue sticks and scissors. What else do you use to cut the detail? Do you use a razor? [00:09:16][12.8]

[00:09:18] Mary Onley: And now I use glue sticks, scissors, and for the hair I use a special kind of scissors with the awl. [00:09:28][9.8]

[00:09:39] Interviewer: I've never seen anything like that. Oh, the celeriac. Celeriacs. Right. [00:09:42][2.9]

[00:09:43] Mary Onley: That's what I make the hair with. [00:09:44][1.3]

[00:09:45] Interviewer: Oh, I see. Uh-huh. Open these tapes so we know where we are. Let me just get some biographical information on you. Were you originally from this neck of the woods? I was. I'm a junior. Are you sure? We're from Northampton County. I've been driving so much I'm not sure where I am anymore. If you don't mind telling me what year you were born in. [00:10:19][33.9]

[00:10:19] Mary Onley: Oh, no, I don't mind. December 27, 1953. [00:10:23][3.7]

[00:10:24] Interviewer: 53 and Do you work outside the home at all? [00:10:33][8.8]

[00:10:33] Mary Onley: Well, yes, I have. I have been a crew leader. A crew leader? That's the crew leader over other people in the fields. Yep. I did that from the time I stopped school. [00:10:50][16.7]

[00:10:51] Interviewer: Is that vegetables? [00:10:52][0.9]

[00:10:54] Mary Onley: Vegetables. Tomatoes, any type of vegetables. I have worked to a very long time. I've worked inside of one. You know, with the winery and all that. And, I mean, I ain't too much of my experience in doing shirt factory sewing, sewing. But I didn't like sewing. I mean I did it, but I don't like it. And let me see. [00:11:18][23.9]

[00:11:19] Mary Onley: I don't know what to do [00:11:21][1.4]

[00:11:21] Mary Onley: I mean, I don't know how to be in there. [00:11:25][3.7]

[00:11:27] Interviewer: I didn't know that they had shirt factories out here. [00:11:29][2.2]

[00:11:30] Mary Onley: Oh yes, they're at one of Oxley now. [00:11:32][1.8]

[00:11:32] Interviewer: Yeah. Oh, that's right. I have seen that. I did too see that. Yeah. Um, has that been there a while? Yes. Uh-huh. That goes way back. [00:11:40][8.3]

[00:11:41] Mary Onley: We'll be back. [00:11:41][0.6]

[00:11:45] Interviewer: Have there ever been mills out here? Textile mills? [00:11:47][2.1]

[00:11:48] Mary Onley: Yes, but that is before I was born. [00:11:50][1.9]

[00:11:50] Interviewer: A long time ago. And let's see, how about your family? You have children? [00:11:58][7.2]

[00:11:59] Mary Onley: Yes, sir. [00:12:00][0.8]

[00:12:00] Interviewer: For kids. [00:12:00][0.2]

[00:12:01] Mary Onley: Four kids, husband, mother, father passed. [00:12:05][4.2]

[00:12:07] Interviewer: Is this your map? [00:12:07][0.5]

[00:12:09] Mary Onley: Yes, this is a friend of mine, a woman from Makalan, she's living in Florida, and so she knows she's here for a visit and hoping to stay. And I can't amount to... Because I'm really delighted to have her, I'm happy. And, but, I have a child, I don't have brothers, no sisters. [00:12:39][30.1]

[00:12:40] Interviewer: Were you the only child of your parents? [00:12:43][2.7]

[00:12:43] Mary Onley: Yes. [00:12:43][0.0]

[00:12:45] Interviewer: And, uh, what did your parents do when they're all out here? [00:12:49][3.4]

[00:12:49] Mary Onley: My mother, she did the same type of work I did in the fields. Well, she had worked two factories, by the way, in New York. My father was a minister and also a carpenter. He was something like me. I mean, my father could help him. He could do it all. No schooling whatsoever. [00:13:09][19.6]

[00:13:10] Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How about your husband? What does he do for a living? [00:13:17][7.4]

[00:13:17] Mary Onley: But I know he always just been, uh, what was he, uh... Funga. That's all. [00:13:23][5.7]

[00:13:26] Interviewer: I'm interested in, we've been talking to people about history and how they make their livings and just learning in general about the culture of the eastern shore and one thing I'm curious about is when people work away, did you ever work off the shore? But you said your mother worked, your father worked? [00:13:48][22.6]

[00:13:49] Mary Onley: We did factory work in New York. [00:13:50][1.2]

[00:13:51] Interviewer: That's interesting. [00:13:52][0.4]

[00:13:52] Mary Onley: Choose to make buttons. [00:13:53][0.8]

[00:13:54] Interviewer: But she was originally from the shore? Mm-hmm. Mm-hm. Mm-mm. Mm-mmm. She went and worked in a button factory. Is that the only place she worked? Off the... No. [00:14:04][9.6]

[00:14:04] Mary Onley: I'm just in a place I'm not in. [00:14:05][1.2]

[00:14:05] Interviewer: Is that around, when was that, during your time? [00:14:08][2.9]

[00:14:08] Mary Onley: I don't know how to live here. [00:14:10][1.3]

[00:14:11] Interviewer: So it was after the... [00:14:12][0.8]

[00:14:12] Mary Onley: Yeah, that was the apple, I think. [00:14:14][1.3]

[00:14:16] Interviewer: Um, did you ever travel much off the, you said you didn't do any shows, you did, uh... [00:14:23][7.6]

[00:14:23] Mary Onley: Well, I had just started traveling last year, and I have never really cared for traveling until now. [00:14:30][6.5]

[00:14:31] Interviewer: Well tell me about some of the shows that you've done. You said you did one in Raleigh. [00:14:35][3.7]

[00:14:37] Mary Onley: What? No, I went to South Carolina that was the first year. You really want to hear about that one? That was the Coca-Cola Festival. It was in South Carolina. I'm trying to think. Green, that green thing. [00:14:57][20.8]

[00:14:59] Interviewer: It wasn't green, it was not green. [00:15:00][1.0]

[00:15:02] Mary Onley: Yes, previous afternoon, a stone came and lost 12 pieces. [00:15:08][5.8]

[00:15:11] Interviewer: Danger to an outdoor customers. [00:15:12][1.0]

[00:15:12] Mary Onley: Right. That was fun, but that was our first time being out, and we had the best tent was going, but what we did, we lowered the tent and the water came in. [00:15:24][11.2]

[00:15:25] Interviewer: I have done festivals before and you've been rained on if you didn't know. [00:15:28][2.8]

[00:15:28] Mary Onley: And so on, but um, and I didn't sell nothing, that was the first one, and then we had this young man come by, he came by every day, and he'd tell the next one, you haven't seen anything like it, you have to go, so he had everybody there coming to our tent, and uh, and every day he'd come, he'd start crying. Lost your best pieces and I was like, I'm not crying, what is the problem? He said, well, maybe you just don't understand. We have been doing shows a long time with my parents and you probably don't understanding it. And I said okay then and so it didn't take you until I got home but I got home. I said oh my god look at this 12 piece of [00:16:22][53.8]

[00:16:23] Mary Onley: What? [00:16:23][0.0]

[00:16:24] Mary Onley: I said, in sum over, as a matter of fact, I only had one that I could do anything with. [00:16:29][4.8]

[00:16:32] Interviewer: But I guess you get kind of attached to them too, don't you? Do you have favorites? [00:16:35][2.9]

[00:16:36] Mary Onley: Yeah, almost all my favorite is gonna say that every favorite I get somebody else loves. [00:16:41][5.0]

[00:16:41] Interviewer: Mm-hmm, I like it through. [00:16:43][1.8]

[00:16:44] Mary Onley: And then I'll say, this was my piece. And they'll say but I like this piece. It was yours. [00:16:51][7.2]

[00:16:52] Interviewer: Have you kept some for your, you know, have you made some that you won't sell, or that you've given to your family and won't let them sell, you don't know? [00:16:59][7.1]

[00:17:00] Mary Onley: Well, I'm going to tell you what I did, my first pieces, I gave them away. My son got about 20 pieces at his house. My mother, I make her a special piece every year. She had what I don't have here. She had a chicken with a clock that's hanging on the wall. Then everybody walks in and says, why did you get this chicken from? And I said, no, why did I give you this chicken? But that's fine. And so I make a special-piece, matter of fact, two or three every year, and give it to her. And each one of my grandkids have their own piece. But I did tell them this. If I ever get proper, don't hold that piece, you sell that piece and you make money with it. [00:17:47][46.9]

[00:17:49] Interviewer: Well, you know, that can happen with this stuff, is that, you know, if a collector starts selling them, then they can become more valuable. Then the problem is that everybody in your community sells them all, and you don't have any, you have to keep some for yourself. [00:18:04][15.3]

[00:18:05] Mary Onley: Right. [00:18:05][0.0]

[00:18:06] Interviewer: Enjoy [00:18:06][0.0]

[00:18:07] Mary Onley: Right. But I don't have a one piece that I won't get rid of. And that's the piece, as you're walking, you can run, that I will get rid off. Which one is that? This is my piece. It was made for me. [00:18:19][11.7]

[00:18:34] Interviewer: I can understand that one. I didn't carry the microphone in there, but for the record, that was the one of Jesus, which I do have a photograph of. I'm trying to think of all I need to ask you. Let's just go back and talk some more about some of the other fairs you've done. How did you find out about the Coca-Cola Festival in Greenville? [00:19:06][31.3]

[00:19:08] Mary Onley: From my friend, Ms. Miller, which is an artist, to Mary Miller, who is an artist, it really got me on the right track because when I started out I was giving Mary my work and one day we decided it was something going on in Kate Charles on the 4th of July and so my daughter called and said my mother do paperwork could she come and participate and they said yes and so when I got there. About an hour or two hours, these two artists came by, about what we call Murray and David, husband and wife, and they brought this cow. I'm kind of like, hmm, somebody wants some of my work, you know. So, I had a few, um, Jerick Oruella from New Jersey. Matter of fact, he buy a piece every year. And, um... He comes down and visits on shore? Come here too. And um... So when we got home, I said, nobody wants to do nothing about my heart. This heart is really nothing. I'm going to get out of this. And so something said, be still, have patience, and wait. And so at that time, I was going to a doctor, not knowing that the doctor was a friend of Mary and David. And so she said, someone is really interested in your heart. I said, look, I know there's nothing about art, I don't call all the schools, no one wants to help me. I said so, who gives me interest? And she said we have an artist. I said do you know there are artists? I said no. I said because every time I see them, they're grinning at me, and I don't know why they're grinning. And she says well there are artist and they love your work. And she looked in the phone book, she got the number. She said here's the phone number, I would like for you to call them please. And I said, okay. I came home. I waited two weeks. I said if that turned me down, nobody won't know it. My grandchildren was over. My daughter came home, I said take her. My husband, I say, oh I need you to go to the store. I went in the bedroom, nobody here, but I went into the bedroom. I closed the door. So if I first started crying, nobody would hurt me because I was hurting. So I called, I said, this is Ms. Murr Miller. She said, yes. I said can I guess who this might be? I said yes. She said this is Mary Hummel. I said uh-oh, because I said to myself. And she said, I'm on my way out to an art show in Washington. She said but I'm going to give you some things to think about. Would you like to do it full time, full time or half way would you like to go with your art? And said, in the meantime, think about all of that where I'm going. And she said, as soon as I get back to the shore, I'll give you a call. And so she gave me a gentleman name that she would like me to talk to in the meanwhile. I think it was Ernest Fields. He's an artist. He do paintings. And she said talk to him and he can feel you. He can give you more about me. I said okay. But at that time he had been in an accident and he was real sick. So didn't give me time to talk with him before she got back. And so I said well this just it. So my husband went to a Bible to get his hair cut. Let me see. He was telling him about my work. So he said, oh, I've got computers, tell them to bring me work. Put it on a computer, tell him, go ahead and get a computer. I said, wait a minute, I know nothing about computers. And so many times, huh, I don't know, we're going out to look for a computer anyway. Don't know what we're doing anyway, but we're gonna go out and look for the computer. And so my husband said, well, I'm going back home to cut the grass, you keep on looking. And so I find the computer, comes back home, said, you have to go with me to get this computer. In a many time. Ms. Millahick calls me, and I say, ooh, you didn't call, she said, I saw y'all calling you. And I said, okay, do I need a computer? She said, if you do, I'll let you have my one. I said because I have two or three, and I don't use neither one. And I said fine. She said, could you meet me tomorrow? That was on Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday. And I say, yes. So I asked my daughter-in-law. I said, you know, I'm scared. Will you ride with me? She said I'll ride with you. And so Ms. Nellis, she talked, and she said, what I wanted to see, just about your heart. I've taken down some pieces with me, and see how far I think you could go with it. She said your word. Is popular in Washington and Chicago. I said yes, she said yes. She said, I know that. And she said, what I was planning on doing is, I can't think of the words she used. Well, I could explain what she meant by it. What she meant, like, she could take my work and sell it for me. Mm-hmm. They're hiding, baby. Wait, do you already? You know, give me everything I need. Right. And she would sell it and so but at that time she said um your work is a trademark nobody's doing your work so if you got a trademark me and david don't need to sell your work we want you to sell your own work and i will tell you where she had a list of everything you need and how much money you need to get started. She said, don't go to a bank. If you don't have to. I said go to a friend if you don't already have it. You need $2,000 and I'll tell you the kind of cash I want you to get, the slide. He said the only thing I want you to do is when you make your slide send them to me and David and we'll tell is it the right way. And if you don't do that we'll come to your house and you'll come to ours. And we'll sit down for the first time and look at them and start sending on, in which ever happens. [00:25:27][379.1]

[00:25:28] Interviewer: So she said they had you take slides to send to the fairs. [00:25:33][5.1]

[00:25:34] Mary Onley: But for the same two different shows, and how I got the application, when David and her both is artists, and the application they would get two applications, and what they would do, they would accept one application and send me another. [00:25:48][14.8]

[00:25:50] Interviewer: I take it that David and Mary Miller, are they white folk? Yes. Are they part of the, was it the Eastern Shore Art League, do you know? Yeah, the Artists Guild. [00:26:01][11.0]

[00:26:02] Mary Onley: They hooked up with the artist, but I don't know about the art league because I just joined the art league. I couldn't tell you too much about the art league. So did you join? I just join, yeah. That's good. And so, but the artist's deal is I'm more famous with them because they let me know just by being in control. And through by the stock. But by meeting her, she introduced me to many more artists, you know, and she said, we all is your family. Don't be afraid to ask anything. And I found it to be true. [00:26:41][39.2]

[00:26:42] Interviewer: Yeah, that's something that this project is interested in, is encouraging artists to be mentors for artists, you know, and if they can help you, what they've been doing, it sounds like it's been real helpful. [00:26:57][15.2]

[00:26:58] Mary Onley: Damn! [00:26:58][0.0]

[00:26:58] Interviewer: Helping you get your cards together and [00:27:00][1.9]

[00:27:00] Mary Onley: They have helped me do just about everything that I didn't know how to do. [00:27:05][4.6]

[00:27:07] Interviewer: Why did they say you needed a couple of thousand dollars? [00:27:09][2.0]

[00:27:10] Mary Onley: Okay, for my camera, my tent, which that was fine because my tent was eating up 800 miles. Okay, the tables. You need tables. You need, then on the inside, I'll show you, you need curtains. In which there are really expensive. And so, anyway, that was true. That's what I needed. [00:27:33][22.9]

[00:27:33] Interviewer: Well, with the amount of stuff that you have, the amount of work that you've got at this point, and the kind of interest that it sounds like people have been expressing in your stuff, has anybody talked to you about dealing with galleries and commissions and that kind of thing? You know how gallery owners will sell things for more than you would sell them for, but they don't get all of that you get. [00:27:58][24.5]

[00:27:58] Mary Onley: Okay, well I built one gallery, that's the Peach Gallery, in, uh, Cape Charles, and I can't really think of the other gallery that I deal with in Mancom. That helps so... About two pieces, it didn't have but two pieces. But the peach gallery, they had close to 15 pieces. And I think I'm about to, they might have two pieces now. [00:28:28][29.9]

[00:28:29] Interviewer: Oh, that's great. Do they handle your big pieces as well as the smaller ones? [00:28:33][4.2]

[00:28:33] Mary Onley: Well, no. Right now Peace Valley is just having small pieces and bigger pieces is the pieces you see I have here. First time I even do a big piece because I'm really hoping to get into some museums with some big pieces. [00:28:52][18.2]

[00:28:52] Interviewer: Right. Yeah, you need to get into the right museums, the kind that handle this kind of stuff. I noticed your sign out front calls it folk art. Why? We'll give you the idea. [00:29:09][16.3]

[00:29:10] Mary Onley: Okay, well, Murr and David gave me that idea because at that time I didn't know what a folk artist was. I just thought, well this is folk art, well there's a folk art and then later on I found out it's someone that never been to school for it. [00:29:28][18.2]

[00:29:29] Interviewer: That's sort of, yeah, I'm a folklorist, that's why I'm not a folklorist about trading, and we might define it a little differently, but that, in terms of the market, and the fairs and all that, I think that's the way most people would classify us as a folk artist. There are a lot of people around the country who do work similar to yours, and religious themes, and the way you paint your figures and all that. I've seen a lot work kind of like that, and they tend to generally be called folk artists. [00:30:04][34.7]

[00:30:05] Mary Onley: Okay [00:30:05][0.0]

[00:30:05] Interviewer: It's just a name. It doesn't really mean that much. Some folk artists are trained in other kinds of art. Some have no training. But it's the art part that makes it. That's the important part because whether they call you a folk artist or some other kind of artist, the fact that what you're doing is art. And, uh... You're doing what you do for the same reasons any other artist does what they do, you know. I just love your stuff. It's well done, and some of it's funny. The faces on those dogs just makes me want to laugh just looking at them. Oh, well I should probably ask you this, though somebody has already told me, Mama Girl was a nickname when you were younger. [00:31:09][63.8]

[00:31:09] Mary Onley: No girls, no men, no names. [00:31:10][1.2]

[00:31:11] Interviewer: From when you were a little bitty girl, right? [00:31:12][1.5]

[00:31:15] Mary Onley: I have two more cousins named on the girl. I have one next door to my mother and I have one on the next street. [00:31:24][9.6]

[00:31:26] Interviewer: And they're dating with all of them, so that might confuse somebody. Which it has. It has. [00:31:32][6.1]

[00:31:32] Mary Onley: What she says, you know, they didn't know which house to go to, what, look for Mama Girl. She said, no, this Mama Girl, no no no, number one. So she said, so you gotta go to the next one. [00:31:42][9.8]

[00:31:42] Interviewer: Right. Well, they all know where to find you, but what was your maiden name, I should ask? Reid. Reid? Reid. R-E-E. R-e-i-d. R- e-i. And the E stands for your middle initial. [00:31:55][12.8]

[00:31:56] Mary Onley: Get this down. [00:31:57][0.7]

[00:31:57] Interviewer: Elizabeth. [00:31:57][0.0]

[00:31:59] Mary Onley: May, May the half of the night, fame on the Fox side. [00:32:03][4.2]

[00:32:04] Interviewer: Uh, only is uh, uh, that's a real local name. I know there's a tent up there. Yes, they're all the same. [00:32:11][7.1]

[00:32:15] Mary Onley: Welcome, sir. I can tell you. [00:32:16][1.4]

[00:32:16] Interviewer: And Reed is probably... There are a lot of Reeds out here. [00:32:20][3.1]

[00:32:19] Mary Onley: It's a lot of reeds. Their names are spelled different. Because what happened? My grandmother, and my grandfather ended up with the reeds [00:32:28][8.8]

[00:32:29] Interviewer: Uh huh. [00:32:29][0.3]

[00:32:31] Mary Onley: My grandfather's name was spelled R-E-I-D. My grandmother's name is spelled R E E D. [00:32:36][5.6]

[00:32:38] Interviewer: And there's white, white, green, and black. [00:32:39][1.2]

[00:32:39] Mary Onley: And like this [00:32:39][0.6]

[00:32:41] Interviewer: Oh [00:32:41][0.0]

[00:32:46] Mary Onley: And let me see, on my father's side, we report opinions on father's sides. [00:32:54][8.3]

[00:32:55] Interviewer: Interesting. [00:32:55][0.0]

[00:32:56] Mary Onley: My grandfather was part of a union, all my father's are. [00:33:00][3.9] [00:33:00] Interviewer: Do you know what, uh... [00:33:01][0.7]

[00:33:01] Mary Onley: I don't know anything, I mean, when I got old enough, they both had passed away, and so they didn't give me the chance, and none of my aunts or my father knew anything, but my grandparents, my mother's parents, was the one was telling me about it. [00:33:19][17.4]

[00:33:21] Interviewer: I'm kind of surprised to find out how many free blacks there were before the Civil War on the Eastern Shore. Of course there were more in Delaware. They were a much larger free community. [00:33:35][14.5]

[00:33:36] Mary Onley: I don't know, because my uncle, which, let me see, he died, he was 102, and we was about eight then, and he was a slave at that time, and, he had taken, not only the doctor, anyway, the bones where his toes had got frostbitten, if you had seen it, he'd taken the bone out His toes. Just by using a knife and going in and putting the bone out and letting it go back together on his own. Oh, what a hard story. And he did both of his peaks the same way. And he would sit up and sing to us, sing Gospels, and would show us his toes. [00:34:26][50.3]

[00:34:28] Interviewer: Oh, that leaves me to... I have two questions. One, are there any other artists in your family? Well, whether they call themselves artists or not, is anybody else artistic in your family? [00:34:40][12.2]

[00:34:41] Mary Onley: I have a son, in which you probably didn't see it, it's two pictures hanging on the wall. Yes, all of this. Okay, that's my son. He don't consider himself as being an artist, he don't care for art. I mean, and he is not hanging out, but I have him, and design a pack pant, but he won't go any further with it. [00:35:02][20.9]

[00:35:02] Mary Onley: Yeah. [00:35:02][0.0]

[00:35:03] Mary Onley: And, I mean, he, he just, he don't like no class, no life. [00:35:07][3.8]

[00:35:10] Interviewer: You all churchgoers? [00:35:10][0.9]

[00:35:11] Mary Onley: Yes, he is. [00:35:12][0.7]

[00:35:12] Interviewer: Pretty much, I didn't have to ask that, but what church do you belong to? [00:35:16][4.1]

[00:35:16] Mary Onley: I'll hold it 20 in Boston, not far from us. [00:35:20][4.2]

[00:35:21] Interviewer: Boston Virginia [00:35:22][0.7]

[00:35:22] Mary Onley: Uh-huh. Is that in Acomack? Acomack County. That's where it grew from us. It's in between a Boston and Pocketeen. [00:35:29][7.1]

[00:35:30] Interviewer: What's the name of the church? [00:35:31][0.7]

[00:35:31] Mary Onley: Hold it to my teeth. [00:35:32][1.1]

[00:35:33] Interviewer: What kind of denominate is that? Baptist. Uh huh. Not familiar with that. [00:35:38][4.8]

[00:35:39] Mary Onley: And as you come from on a tee, it's one side relight on the root. That's down from the chandelier, but it's the one that sits back in the field line. [00:35:51][11.8]

[00:35:51] Interviewer: Okay. [00:35:51][0.0]

[00:35:52] Mary Onley: Thank you. [00:35:52][0.0]

[00:35:53] Interviewer: Were you raised Baptist? Were you in the Baptist Church? [00:35:56][3.1]

[00:35:57] Mary Onley: Mm-hmm. [00:35:57][0.0]

[00:35:58] Interviewer: On both sides of the family? Your husband wants to? No. [00:36:01][2.4]

[00:36:01] Mary Onley: No, I was the only one raised there. I wasn't raised in a church. [00:36:05][4.5]

[00:36:07] Interviewer: But you got him going now. Is there anything you want to ask me about, what I'm doing here, or what, I don't know... [00:36:22][15.4]

[00:36:23] Mary Onley: Well, better for you to be here. That's a good point. [00:36:26][2.6]

[00:36:26] Interviewer: I'm basically just doing documentation, but the project is designed down the road to try to find ways to support traditional artists and folk artists in whatever they do, whether it's music or art like what you do or class. [00:36:46][19.9]

[00:36:47] Mary Onley: Uh-huh. [00:36:47][0.0]

[00:36:49] Interviewer: And it sounds like you've been getting some good advice from your friends, the artists here on the shore, about how to do the fairs and festivals, getting a tent, having your photographs made and all that. Is there anything that you can think of that you wish you knew more about in terms of how to sell your stuff? Or is it how you run up against anything? Any competitors so far? [00:37:17][28.1]

[00:37:19] Mary Onley: Well and a couple of shows we ran up against a white gentleman, a couple white gentlemen that didn't really take on the type of art because I didn't deal with too many types of white photos, you know, with my art. You know and so he brought up how do you like if i if you could walk in my room and you didn't see a black door all the way out [00:37:50][30.7]

[00:37:50] Interviewer: Help them right now, that's the right stuff. [00:37:52][1.9]

[00:37:53] Mary Onley: And so, when I got back home, it showed. I called and said, Murr and David, and I said, would that really be a problem? I said because right now, I said in which Murr and David would ever know in my mind, I can talk to them about it. I said right now I don't, I say, I really didn't know much about paint. I said but through your help, you help me with paint. And you say whatever my color is here, what I see, that's what I call it. That's what paint. And I say... But could I ask you something? And you will think I'm trying to be smart. What color are you? And she said, Well, orange and blue. And I said, okay, then. She said, but if you don't feel comfortable of painting me, that's your business. Saying there's nothing nobody can do about it. So I ought to see what they see. And she say, get him no mind. He said he was about nothing. He said unless a politician or somebody come to you and say something, then don't worry about it. And so that was the only misunderstanding. And I'm like some will come and don't really... Teachers, I have a problem with teachers. Yes, I'm not ashamed to say that. But some teachers, not all teachers, they'll say well... I was taught that in school, I didn't teach you not to do this! Paper mache, and so I wouldn't say anything until this year. Now, I will say something now. I said to one teacher in Natchaponga, she said, I taught my teachers, I'm teaching my students there. I even did this in school. Oh, you just put this plaster on this wall, chicken wall, and you go on back to your building. I say, I am sorry, ma'am. I It's nothing in this, but newspaper. This is not what you do in school this is newspaper you do similar to this in school she said uh-huh and so that's when i started explaining from one to finish and she said I'll be back i said okay i really didn't pay it in the mind she said you come back she said you know that i have to take this chicken home with me she said because i have never heard to see anybody to get people standing up like this. So you got your paper to do anything you want to do with it. [00:40:29][156.2]

[00:40:29] Interviewer: Yeah, I guess it's the glue that has the difference between the glue and the paint. [00:40:34][4.4]

[00:40:34] Mary Onley: And the paint stiffening and the problem with being used is you got to be in it. So that's the work. [00:40:42][7.5]

[00:40:46] Interviewer: I saw somebody the other day with uh, when I first saw your uh, uh, film named Poo Johnson up the road headed, it was you, one of those big cats. [00:40:54][8.3]

[00:40:55] Mary Onley: Your friend of his an auto date kid. [00:40:56][1.5]

[00:40:57] Interviewer: Oh really? [00:40:57][0.3]

[00:40:57] Mary Onley: A friend of his, he didn't know he had a pet, okay? [00:40:59][2.0]

[00:40:59] Interviewer: Oh, got it for him as a present. It's a great cat. I took photographs of it last night sitting on his dining room table with his real cat sitting right next to it. They look... It's funny because they were both sort of in the same position. [00:41:12][12.3]

[00:41:12] Mary Onley: Uh-huh. [00:41:12][0.0]

[00:41:14] Interviewer: But, where was I going with that? Oh, I had seen, driving up here, somebody had on the roof of their car a paper mache deer. [00:41:25][11.3]

[00:41:27] Mary Onley: Uh-huh. [00:41:27][0.0]

[00:41:27] Interviewer: That wasn't yours, was it? No. No, no. But I thought maybe it might have been, but now that I've seen your stuff, I know that probably wouldn't. I think that was the old-style paper machine with the strips. I don't know about the strips. [00:41:39][11.4]

[00:41:39] Mary Onley: I've seen this before. [00:41:40][0.7]

[00:41:41] Interviewer: And where did that come from? [00:41:42][0.8]

[00:41:42] Mary Onley: I don't know, but I think it would be that would have me worked on. Because I had another lady that I met at the cookout. Suddenly, the artist Gail Cookout was there, to one of the artists. And she came to me, she was telling me that her daughter had did this in school. And she hollered across the yard. Is that the man over there? That's not the one that's doing all this paperwork. And so when she met me, I was explaining it to her. And she said, I can't wait till my daughter comes from college. Said to see, said, because your work. Said, do you know how much people care for your work? And I said, no. I said because I very seldom leave the show unless I'm going to a show. Right, right. And she say, well, you're going to have to start traveling more. Said, because people would like to not only meet your work, they would like meet you. And I say, maybe I will. [00:42:44][62.0]

[00:42:48] Interviewer: I have a friend who was a state foot horse in Tennessee, and he's written a little book that was, or he and a woman named Pat Wells. [00:42:57][9.4]

[00:42:58] Mary Onley: Oh [00:42:58][0.0]

[00:43:00] Interviewer: for folk artists, and it deals with a lot of the same stuff that we've been talking about. Get into shows and, you know, make sure you've got your good slides and entry fees and the shows that are juried, you know, how to deal with that kind of stuff. I don't know, it's been a while since I've read it, I don t know whether he gets into to brochures or that kind of marketing or not. So I think he does talk a little bit about how to deal with gallery owners and that sort of thing. So I'll send you a copy. Okay. Have you ever thought about doing a website on the internet? Has anybody asked you that? [00:43:43][42.9]

[00:43:45] Mary Onley: Well, I would like to. [00:43:46][1.8]

[00:43:48] Interviewer: Complicated if you don't [00:43:49][0.7]

[00:43:49] Mary Onley: What I'm saying the problem is, I want to be able to afford it. [00:43:53][3.5]

[00:43:53] Interviewer: Yeah, it's just like advertising in a firm book, and unless you're geared up to, to... Promote yourself on the internet there. It's like any other kind of advertising. It can be more expensive than it's worth. [00:44:15][22.2]

[00:44:16] Mary Onley: Right, that's what they was telling me. [00:44:17][1.3]

[00:44:17] Interviewer: And one of the things we've talked about doing for this project is maybe doing websites on the internet for all the artists on the shore, you know, or just some sort of a directory, a few photographs, that kind of thing. But we'll talk about it in a minute, figure out what everybody wants to do. I'm just a bunch of run-out of tape. [00:44:17][0.0] [2423.7]